| Dream38v8 | -- 03-20-2025 @ 9:29 AM |
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I took my '38 out for an early spring run yesterday. At two different stop sighs the car died. I was able to get it started luckily. On my trip back I noticed the amp meter was not charging, but if I turned on the lights the battery would discard. When I got home I attached my trickle charger. Tried to start the car this morning. It almost fired. Now when I try to start the car I get a high pitch hum. The solenoid does not kick in. To me this is a battery issue. I bought my last battery from our local Interstate store. When I called they had no idea what a 6V positive ground battery is. Am I on the right track and if so where do I get a new battery? Thanks Ray
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| jerry_356 | -- 03-20-2025 @ 11:23 AM |
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I feel your pain in dealing with many sales people. However, you don't have to ask about a 6 v positive ground battery. Just ask about a 6 v battery - how it is connected is up to the buyer.
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| Dream38v8 | -- 03-20-2025 @ 11:30 AM |
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Thanks Jerry_356. I was just looking into that very same issue. I knew my fellow V8ers would come thru! Thanks Ray
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| TomO | -- 03-20-2025 @ 11:33 AM |
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It sound like you may have multiple problems. One is the car dying and the other is charging the battery. Take your battery to a battery service center near you and have them charge and test your battery. They may be able to get you a replacement battery. The 2LF battery is no longer available. Tom
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| Dream38v8 | -- 03-20-2025 @ 11:56 AM |
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Tom, thanks for the additional comments. Adv Auto has a 1-30 6V for $99 with a core. What else could be wrong? I would rather not replace the battery if something else could be the problem. I replaced the cut out in 2016/17. I will have the battery tested before I buy. Thanks Ray
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| Kens 36 | -- 03-20-2025 @ 12:22 PM |
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Ray, Before you buy a new battery, make sure you have correct heavy battery cables, not the thinner ones intended for 12-volt. Disconnect the battery and clean the terminals and battery cables with a battery brush designed for this. Make sure your battery is fully charged. Overnight on a trickle charger may not be enough. If the above doesn't resolve the issue, as Tom suggested, you should be able to have Advance Auto load test your battery. If it fails, any good 6-volt AUTO battery should work. Measure your battery holder and find the largest one that will fit. I'm a fan of the Optima battery, but you will have to find a way to keep it from falling over in your battery compartment. Ken
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| Dream38v8 | -- 03-20-2025 @ 1:29 PM |
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Ken, the cable are approx. twice the size of my 12V '69 Dart. The terminals and cable connectors are also clean with no corrosion. I clean these at least twice. Two cells were full and the other needed about an ounce to fell. I will have the batteryload tested outdoor to buying a new one. Thank you Ray
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| Bens38 | -- 03-20-2025 @ 2:49 PM |
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Beautiful car!
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| kubes40 | -- 03-20-2025 @ 3:30 PM |
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Don't confuse them with asking for a "positive ground battery". The battery doesn't care which post you ground and neither do the salesfolk. Next, attempt to charge the battery fully. Then bring it a battery place and ask them to load test it. That is a surefire test to ascertain the condition. If the battery holds the charge when they load test it, the issue is elsewhere. If the battery is good, I'd take the generator to a good shop and have them test it. This stuff is actually quite easy to figure out. I tend to do things methodically. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| carcrazy | -- 03-20-2025 @ 7:53 PM |
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One place to buy a 6V battery is your local NAPA store. If they don't have one in stock, they can usually get one for you within a few hours. If you are a veteran, ask them for your 10% discount.
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| TomO | -- 03-21-2025 @ 11:42 AM |
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You could have a cutout problem, causing the generator to not charge. You can check the charging circuit by connecting a volt meter to the output connector on the cutout and increasing the engine rpm slowly. The voltage should increase to 7.4 volts by the time the engine reaches 1,200 rpms or about 15 mph. You should see a slight jump in voltage when the cutout operates. Tom
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| Dream38v8 | -- 03-22-2025 @ 8:15 AM |
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Tom, I tried you to test the cut out as you suggested. The battery was fully charged plus I left the charger connected. The car would not fire. I only heard a hum. I turned on the lights and they worked plus the car ammeter indicated discharge. So my uneducated guess is the cut out is bad. If this is the case where would you recommend I purchase a new one? Thank you and everyone on the Forum for all your assistance. Ray
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| carcrazy | -- 03-22-2025 @ 11:42 AM |
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You can purchase a diode replacement for the generator cutout from C&G. https://cgfordparts.com/generator-cutout-diode-conversion-kit-28-39-all-a-10155-d.html
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| Kens 36 | -- 03-22-2025 @ 2:07 PM |
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Ray, Your battery was fully charged and you are just getting clicking or a hum, I would start suspecting the solenoid or starter. Ken
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| Dream38v8 | -- 03-22-2025 @ 5:32 PM |
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Ken, your one "S" word scares me (starter). When I went for my drive the car I believe died twice. The first time I was on a very small hill. I let out the clutch to go and the car kick started. The car ran great. The next stop the about 1/2 mile the car died again. It wouldn't start. I let it sit for a few minutes while I looked under the hood. It was a cool day and I had only driven 2 miles. I got back in and the car started using the choke. I went for about a 5 mile drive keeping the engine reving when I stopped. Got home and parked the car. Tried to start it again and it ran for about 5 seconds. After that it would only hum when I tried to start the '38. Battery? Cutout? Solenoid? Stater? Thanks Ray
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| carcrazy | -- 03-22-2025 @ 7:05 PM |
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If the starter just hums and doesn't turn the engine over when you try to start it, the starter is not engaging the ring gear on the flywheel. The Bendix drive spring may be weak or broken, the bolt that mounts the Bendix to the starter shaft may be missing or loose or the bolts which mount the starter to the engine may be loose or missing.
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| Dream38v8 | -- 03-24-2025 @ 9:58 AM |
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All of the nuts and cable connections are tight and not corroded. So based on my reading of all the helpful comments I need to remove the starter and have it checked out. I will still have the battery load tested as it is a minimum of three years old. Ray Ray
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| TomO | -- 03-24-2025 @ 2:43 PM |
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Lets try to fix the start problem first. For safety sake, keep all sparks away from the battery. A spark near the battery could cause it to explode. Have someone observe the headlights while you push the starter button. If the lights go out, your battery is weak. If the lights get real dim, you may have a starter problem. If the lights just dim a little, the solenoid is the most likely suspect. To test the solenoid, connect a jumper wire from the center terminal of the solenoid to a head bolt. If the starter turns the engine over, the problem is the starter button on the dash or the wiring. If it does not turn over the engine and the hum is coming from the solenoid, the solenoid is bad. To test the starter, connect 6 volts directly to the starter by connecting a jumper cable from the NEG terminal of the battery to the terminal on the starter. Connect the cable to the battery, then touch the other end to the starter or the cable that goes from the solenoid to the starter. You will see sparks until you make a solid connection. If the starter is good, it will turn over the engine. If your starter is hard to get to, you can use this procedure to test it: Get 2 sets of jumper cables. Connect the BLACK jumper cable clamp of cable set 1 to the NEG post of the battery Connect the RED jumper cable clamp of cable set 2 to the starter Connect the other end of the BLACK of cable set 1 and the other end of the RED of cable set 2 together away from the battery. The starter should turn over the engine. If the starter does not turn over the engine, the starter is bad. Good luck. Tom
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| Dream38v8 | -- 03-24-2025 @ 3:18 PM |
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Tom, thank you for these steps to hopefully solve my "humming" not starting issue. I probably won't get a chance to do this until Wednesday. I will provide an update as soon as I can. Ray
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| kubes40 | -- 03-24-2025 @ 5:01 PM |
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TomO is the guy to listen to here. Like me, he takes things one at a time and his advice is based on KNOWLEDGE, not guessing. Do yourself a favor and listen to HIS advice. The man is sharp! Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| Dream38v8 | -- 03-29-2025 @ 9:23 AM |
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Now what? The battery was load tested and is good. I performed your initial test of pressing the starter button and watching the headlights. The lights dimmed but did not go out. So I decide to order a new solenoid. The old solenoid was removed awaiting the new solenoid. I replaced the original solenoid to run another test. If the started was stuck I wanted try and start with the clutch out. Would the car jerk forward with the clutch out? It doesn't matter because nothing happened when pressing the start button. No hum no anything, but the lights work. I next tried to start again with the charger connected had the same results. All connections are tight and the solenoid is connected as it was originally. The ammeter discharges when I throw the switch, but no additional discharge when I turn on the lights. As I initially said now what? Ray
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| TomO | -- 03-29-2025 @ 1:16 PM |
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I can't be sure, but it looks like you did not connect all of the wires to the battery side of the solenoid. Look around the area where I have drawn an arrow. Don't be so anxious to replace parts, test the solenoid and starter with one of the methods that I described in my previous post. When you replace or start to replace parts, you change the conditions that the trouble shooting procedure was set up for. Do you have a multi-meter? If you do would you post a photo of the front of the meter. If you do that I can give you instructions on how to use it to check out the solenoid. Tom
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| Dream38v8 | -- 03-31-2025 @ 6:24 AM |
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Tom, the solenoid picture is before I removed the solenoid. I went out and could not locate any additional wires not attached. The solenoid is connected now the same as the original pic. I am not sure how the fog lights are connected, but when I turned them on the ammeter did not move. Could be because of a very low draw? When I turned on the headlights the ammeter discharged. The attached pic is of my two multimenters. Ray
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| Dream38v8 | -- 04-05-2025 @ 11:38 AM |
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I connected the solenoid center terminal using a wire to ground. Nothing. No sound, solenoid did not click. I installed the new solenoid. Same results. I recleaned all the connectors again and reinstalled the original solenoid. When I attempted to start the '38 the solenoid clicked and the rpm humming sound is back. My understanding from the earlier posts is the issue is the dreaded starter. Dreaded because of the location and my age. Before I purchased the car Fenton headers were installed. I'll need to jack the car up and place it on axle stands before I remove starter. The question is do I have the starter rebuilt (Lexington, KY area) or purchase a new one (which vendor)? Ray
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| carcrazy | -- 04-05-2025 @ 1:29 PM |
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Provided you can find a competent starter rebuilder, having the original starter rebuilt is the best course of action. If you can't find a local rebuilder in your area, let us know so we can recommend someone nationally who is capable of doing the job.
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| TomO | -- 04-06-2025 @ 11:06 AM |
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Did you try to connect a jumper cable directly from the NEG post of the battery to the cable going to the starter? Connect the battery end first as sparks near the battery can cause a hydrogen explosion. The statement that you cleaned connections and the symptoms change, leads me to believe that you may have an internal corroded cable. Jumpering directly to the starer will eliminate that possibility Tom
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| kubes40 | -- 04-06-2025 @ 1:26 PM |
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TomO, No surprise but you make a very valid point. A few years ago a fellow gave me a Deere tractor as he got so frustrated with his attempts to get the thing started. It simply would not turn over regardless of what he tried. Like you, I tend to work methodically. I tested the connects and quickly found the cable going to the starter was not carrying current. The ends (he cleaned them very well) and the cable itself appeared very nice. "Appeared"... New cable and about a half hour later I had a great running / starting Deere tractor. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| trjford8 | -- 04-06-2025 @ 6:48 PM |
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Those woven wire ground cable can also be a problem. They may visually look clean, but they corrode internally. In two separate instances they were the problem. A new cable cured the starting issue.
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| Dream38v8 | -- 04-07-2025 @ 2:16 PM |
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Tom, Mike and Triford8, The only woven cable on the car is a ground cable from the engine block to the firewall. The battery cables are approximately 1/2" in diameter. I directly connected the negative battery terminal to the starter. Besides the sparks the results were the same (solenoid clicked and the starter hummed. By everyone helpful hints the stater is the culprit. Now I just need to crawl under the car and remove the starter. I am not sure when the starter was installed (new or rebuilt). I purchased the '38 in 2016 from the individual who purchased it in 2002. So who knows how old it is? I located one individual that rebuilds starters, but he is retired. He is unaware of any other individual in the Lexington, KY area. Is it better to rebuild the starter or purchase a new one? Thanks again to everyone assistance. Ray
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| kubes40 | -- 04-07-2025 @ 4:41 PM |
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Ray, I'm not a fan of new starters. It would involve shipping but you might check with Mike Driskell in TN. If he is willing to rebuild it, you can be assured it will be done properly. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| Dream38v8 | -- 04-07-2025 @ 8:25 PM |
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Mike, please provide the contact info for Mike Driskell. Thank you Ray
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| nelsb01 | -- 04-07-2025 @ 9:20 PM |
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Once you get the starter out, you can bench test it. But first when taking it out, make sure that you hold it "together" and dont take the bolts out, as once the bolts are out, the starter armature will slide out and you dont want that to happen if you can help it. Once out, get two proper sized nuts to spin on the bolts and tighten to hold it all together. Use jumper cables and your 6 volt battery and connect one to the post on the starter -- hold the starter in a vise or find some way to keep it held before connecting the other cord from the battery. Just touching the housing will let you know if the starter wants to spin. If Michael Driskell doesnt want to do a rebuild for you, contact Generator Specialty Co. 651-222-7692 3204 Rice Street Little Canada MN 55126 (generatorspecialty.com) They have done 2 of my generators and a starter. They have the parts. This message was edited by nelsb01 on 4-7-25 @ 9:22 PM
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| TomO | -- 04-10-2025 @ 8:23 AM |
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If you haven't removed the starter yet, try putting the car in 3rd gear and push it backward. If your starter is hung up, this will free it with a bang. Do a search on alternator and starter rebuilding near me find a local rebuilder. I use a local shop with about 70 years of experience. he owner grew up servicing generators, starters and associated equipment. https://www.mgautoelectric.com/ Tom
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| Dream38v8 | -- 04-27-2025 @ 11:07 AM |
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Tom and all, I have determined the starting issue is the starter. I also found a local individual thru the Model A Club that rebuilds 6V and 12V starters. I discussed my starter and he can rebuild it. Today I jacked the '38 up and placed axle stands under the frame. I can only locate one nut to remove (close to the starter terminal and under the exhaust manifold). I felt around for the second nut, but could not locate. I checked the '38/'39 Club Book, but it only has a brief description. So where is the second but located? Thanks Ray
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| Kens 36 | -- 04-27-2025 @ 11:34 AM |
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Ray, There are two long bolts that go from the back of the starter, all the way thru to the housing. Try to keep the starter together as your remove it as the front plate will try to separate. Be careful, it is very heavy. Ken
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| Dream38v8 | -- 04-28-2025 @ 2:34 PM |
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Ken, I crawled around under the '38 again today. I still can only locate one long bolt thru the back of the starter. This bolt is at 11 o'clock. So where is the second bolt? 1 o'clock? Is the a good drawing or picture available? Does the car need to be on a hoist? Thank again for everyone assistance. Ray
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| carcrazy | -- 04-28-2025 @ 3:02 PM |
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The other mounting bolt is 180 degrees away from the one you have located. If you say the one you have found is at 11 o'clock, then the other one is at the 5 o'clock position.
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| Dream38v8 | -- 04-28-2025 @ 3:44 PM |
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Thanks Carcrazy. I need notice a second bolt at 5 o'clock but it did not connect to the starter. The bolt goes thru a housing. After both bolts are removed will the starter come straight out? If not what else do I need to remove? I won't beable to get back to the car until Wednesday. As everyone can tell I am a novice with my '38. Give me a 50s or 60s car and I am at home. Pic of our 1969 Dart GT convertible we bought new in '69. Ray
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| carcrazy | -- 04-28-2025 @ 8:10 PM |
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There is a small bracket that is under the other bolt which mounts under one of the oil pan retaining bolts. To remove the starter, you will have to loosen that retaining bolt and move the bracket out of the way so the starter can be pulled out.
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 04-29-2025 @ 12:55 PM |
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Is the generator charging? Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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